Date: 2012-02-28 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skington.livejournal.com
A very lazy googling suggests it's between 35 and 40% in the US.

Date: 2012-02-28 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
This article has the top 1% in the US paying 28.3% of “taxes” – I think from the context Federal income tax.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/how-much-americans-actually-pay-in-taxes/

Loads of OECD statistics on Tax – I am most struck by Chart A on page 39 showing tax as a proportion of GDP. Greece is third from the bottom.

http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/taxation/revenue-statistics-2007_rev_stats-2007-en-fr

There might be some more pertinant stats in the OECD archive but they are lurking behind a subscription wall.
Edited Date: 2012-02-28 02:51 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-02-28 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
Yes.

One needs to be a little cautious in my experience when looking these things. Key gotcha is a significant difference in what your tax payment buys you.

E.g. tax in the UK gets you access to the NHS but tax in the US doesn't get you access to an equivalent service.

So, when I first looked at these figures I was surprised that Germany was below us until I recalled that quite a lot of their health care is organised on a non-state collective basis - often through unions (IIRC).

Date: 2012-02-28 06:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Agree with this comment -- I've seen some calculations showing that the "lower tax" in the US washes out completely if you add in what people pay for health care and education.

Date: 2012-02-29 08:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I recall being slightly surprised when an acquaintance who lived in New York told me that he was paying 40% income tax. Which is about the tax rate I’d expect a person doing his job to be paying in the UK.

Then I remembered that he’d be paying (or having paid on his behalf) medical insurance.

Not sure what the VAT or equivalent rate is in New York.

Date: 2012-02-28 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
I know this does not answer your question but as I pointed out elsewhere, the top 1% in the UK get 20% of the taxable income from which to pay 30% of the tax -- and that article is only counting declared taxable income -- the top 1% are often getting much of their income in "less taxable" forms. The lower percentages of income pay a much larger percentage of their income as VAT.

"Over the last decade, the share of income tax paid by the top one per cent has rise sharply from 22 per to 28 per cent of the total. " The share of taxable income received by the top 1% has had a similar rise.

While it doesn't answer your question properly, this table of "GINI coefficient" for world's countries is revealing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distribution_of_wealth
Could not find one with a higher GINI than us on a quick scan which is somewhat shocking to me.

Date: 2012-02-28 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Ah... but the way the GINI is calculated, you can have a lot of people living in tent cities if the top end is not relatively that wealthy.

However, the figure given there does not match the one in the reference quoted -- I've queried it on the article talk page.

Date: 2012-02-28 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Wikipedia has a convincing one for our evolution of the income GINI in time for several countries including UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

We're no Brazil but we're far from perfect and getting worse not better.

Date: 2012-02-28 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
The more I read about this the more complex it is. Some places report income GINI across all adults, some places report income GINI per household and some places report wealth GINI. It's actually hard to know which is the best measure. If a man goes to work and earns well and comes back home sharing his wealth with his stay at home wife (or vice versa) and it is their free choice... is that an inequal situation. A society where every household was an identikit pair of people earning the same but with only one worker would have a perfect gini per family but a perfectly awful gini per adult.

Many places report different years in the same table to make things even worse.

Date: 2012-02-28 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Well... I'd more put it "inequality is a hard thing to measure well". If we allowed more poor people to move to the UK and kept them poor rather than allowing them to share the quality of life then that would definitely be a negative in my book. (E.g. the US/Mexico approach "sure, come over covertly, work illegally for a pittance" -- not such a good way.)

Similarly, if you allow "non doms" but do not tax them in a redistributive way such that their contribution actually makes poor people wealthier then why do it?

Date: 2012-02-28 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Well, we can construct artificial examples like that I guess. E.g. We kill the 100 poorest people in the country (or allow them to quietly starve) increasing the mean wealth (and decreasing inequality) or we import 100 wealthy misers who never spend anything or pay tax increasing the mean wealth.

So, "inequality is not necessarily a bad thing" in the same way that "increasing mean wealth is not necessarily a good thing".

Date: 2012-02-28 09:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
It would be the situation if you let rich non doms into the country with no plan to try to redistribute wealth from them and you let poor immigrants into the country with no plan to redestribute wealth to them and if that decision was taken at a single moment in time. However, politics in reality does not work like that, it is an ongoing process... there's not usually a defined "start point" where "poor people enter country from date X" and even when there is, this will continue to happen so a government always has a choice to allow such policies in a way which will redistribute wealth more equitably or not.

So, while you can say "let poor people in or do not" is a valid and realistic political decision, in reality, what happens is that this is an ongoing process over many decades which can either be coupled with redistributive policies to even out the wealth imbalance or can be done in the absence of such. Unfortunately, successive governments have taken the latter route.

Date: 2012-02-28 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
It doesn't matter if you redistribute the wealth away from the non-doms - unless you redistribute it away such that they are on the median income you are increasing inequality.

Only if you take a very crude measure (actually I have no idea which measure you have in mind that has this property) -- if you take the GINI coefficient this need not be the case, indeed it need not be nearly be the case and sometimes only a small degree of redistribution will be necessary.

Here's an examples -- pretty much first example I tried:
Initial population, income = 1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,10.0 -- GINI = 0.514
New arrival (our hypothetical non-dom) has income 12 -- population would be
1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0,10.0,12.0 -- GINI = 0.525 (marginally worse)
Redistributive tax of only 2.0 given to poorest
Redistributed wealth
1.5,1.5,1.5,1.5,10.0,10.0 -- GINI = 0.43 (considerably improved)

Unless I made a cock up with my quick and dirty GINI calculator that is. That's not much of a redistribution really either. Of course not massively realistic but the point is you don't have to tax/redistribute much to create an improvement. Certainly not to get someone down to the median or the mean.

the immigrants do reach median (or higher) levels - but it takes a generation or so

Not in the UK where, as I mentioned earlier, social mobility is poor and getting worse. Report here is eye opening.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpb21/Cpapers/Ethn_2gen_revision_C1.pdf

Date: 2012-02-28 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Incidentally, the wealthy GINI will look very different from the Income GINI. The UK has terrifically low (and falling) social mobility. I guess if we have a large class of wealthy people with low (comparatively) income simply "holding wealth" the wealth GINI will be high. However, I'm trying to find a better figure. I know our income GINI is not so bad as that.

Date: 2012-02-28 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Feeling prosthetics! OMG! Can I have a TAIL yet? (no? wah.)

(It's cool for the use-as-intended too, obviously)

Date: 2012-02-28 12:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Wow. It's shocking to think that prosthetic tails might actually be along shortly! :) I had that down as one of the science fiction ideas which wasn't going to arrive soon.

Date: 2012-02-28 11:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
As much as I find the hobbit house lovely, and I love the idea of building something in that way (but without the fandom element), I'm rather concerned about it springing a variety of leaks / suffering from landslip / etc in the next few months or years.

Date: 2012-02-28 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
Yeah – I feel awfully snobby and I’m not suggesting that I could do better or even have a go but I did look at the Hobbit House and think I’d not like to be in that during a storm, sitting under a leak, waiting for the roof to fall in.

Date: 2012-02-28 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
I'm most worried about the weight of the earth that's being kept up by the back wall, and what happens when that becomes water-logged or when nearby trees start to get nearer.

If I were doing something like that -- and I do really like the idea -- I'd want to spend a fair bit of money on an architect or engineer to tell me how to make sure it's all going to stay put.

Date: 2012-02-28 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
Yeah - the back wall, ten years old, full of water, with a couple of tree roots grown into it.

I wonder how thermally insulated it is. IIRC damp soil is not a great thermal insulator.

I think it's lovely and even if it doing it so it doesn't fall down or leak heat like a sieve costs £8k that's still cheap - if you can get access to the land.

Gender-swapped Dr Who Cosplay

Date: 2012-02-28 12:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
What I'm particularly pleased by is how natural most of those outfits actually look. It makes me think we very easily could have a female Doctor one way or another, even though the show has always had a "Doctor and someone else" vibe.

Date: 2012-02-28 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nmg.livejournal.com
While it's interesting that 30% of income tax is paid by the top 1% of earners, I'd be far more interested to see what proportion of total income is earned by the top 1%.

Date: 2012-02-28 01:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
The Economist had a good article about this last? week. Can't find it online (sucks). Basically - yes. The UK tax structure means we have more than our "share" of ultra-rich people living here and paying some taxes.

Date: 2012-02-28 01:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
That may be what I'm remembering... I have fuzzybrain apparently.

Date: 2012-02-28 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steer.livejournal.com
Top 1% currently has around 20% of declared taxable income according to ONS (by which I mean any income including that allowed as tax free). Of course the lower percentiles pay much higher proportions of VAT. Last time I checked the lowest 50% of earners are paying a higher proportion of their income in tax than the highest 10% when all taxes are accounted for (didn't have figures for top 1%).

Date: 2012-02-28 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
The most recent US numbers I could find claim the top 1 percent pay 38 percent of all federal taxes.

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/top10-percent-income-earners

Date: 2012-02-28 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
If they've pinned down at least some part of the brain chemistry for noticing mistakes (I'm surprised it's that chemically simple), then maybe they'll get a better understanding of why sleep is important.

Date: 2012-02-28 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spacelem.livejournal.com
All my work to date has been done with C++ (compiled with gcc), GNU Octave, GNUplot, Bash, and LaTex (and I've also hovered near R). All free/open source software as far as I'm aware. It's been years since I last went near MS Office.

My only failure is using Maple, but I don't know that a (good) free software alternative exists.

Date: 2012-02-28 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johncoxon.livejournal.com
That article is not talking about the languages that you use, it's talking about the things you create with those languages. So, in order to comply, you'd have to have released all the work you've done under open-source licenses.

Date: 2012-02-28 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spacelem.livejournal.com
Ah, I didn't actually read the article :P

However, the first step to enabling others to redo the things I did, is to use tools that they can freely use. To be honest though, there's nothing I've done (apart from the sheer elegance of my code) that's so original that it would require special tools to be able to do; so, not releasing my code (as part of my thesis, I think it probably has to end up public) wouldn't really prevent anyone else from duplicating my results.

Date: 2012-02-28 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kurosau.livejournal.com
That's not a bacon balrog, that's a bacon dragonborn! Jeez, get your geek references right...

Date: 2012-02-28 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Yeah. It's a Skyrim helmet thing.

Date: 2012-02-28 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johncoxon.livejournal.com
Science is reproducible regardless of the availability of the source code. I speak as someone who has been busily reproducing results without access to the source code since starting my PhD. :)

I think making code available could be useful, but in a world where your worth as a scientist and your job security depends on getting published and getting cited, there's a conflict of interest that is incredibly hard to resolve. What really needs to happen is some sort of method of measuring the impact of released code as well as the impact of released papers.
Edited Date: 2012-02-28 10:15 pm (UTC)

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