Date: 2018-06-22 12:42 pm (UTC)
jack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jack
Good question. Yes, I specifically meant men, because people are more willing to see an individual man as an exception (because somehow society programs us to see men as an in-group even for people who aren't men), so generalisations about men cause harm less often.

(I do think it would be better to always be precise, but I think complaining about the 'unmarked' majority is more ok in a way other generalisations aren't.)

Although, I'm not sure I have everything right, I'm open to hear counter-arguments if they're not dismissive.

(I might point to exceptions like "men are bad caregivers" which do cause harm, or "men can't do housework/relationship work/etc" which are bad for non-men as much as men, although I've also heard emphatic arguments that there shouldn't be exceptions.)

Date: 2018-06-22 06:01 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Not so much a counter-argument as just to note that you've added an extra criterion to 'you shouldn't quibble [when] it's clear that they're talking about a common but not universal tendency in men, and correcting them is likely taking away from a valid grievance'.

I was pretty sure about what your answer was going to be, I just wondered whether you would justify it by (a) claiming that there were no common but not universal tendencies in women, (b) claiming that there are no valid grievances about such tendencies in women, or (c) bringing in another criterion to distinguish between when you should and shouldn't quibble about valid grievances based on common, but not universal tendencies.

I was pretty sure you wouldn't got for (a), I wondered if you might go for (b), but you chose (c) instead. Noted.

Date: 2018-06-23 10:16 am (UTC)
jack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jack
I mean, I wasn't explaining very clearly because I was trying to work through some ideas rapidly, but I thought my original comment did say that sometimes you needed to fight back a tendency to stereotype and sometimes you didn't.

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